On football, or Why the BNP has ruined the World Cup for me

The World Cup

Is there some kind of football thing on at the moment?

(Edited to add: the comments I’ve had from right-wingers on this post are EXACTLY the reason why I wrote it.  I reserve the right to delete them, but I’ve left them up for amusement for the moment. K)

I’m not mad keen on football. In fact, I actively dislike it. I’d rather spend 90 minutes watching a film, reading a book, baking, knitting, listening to music or making music, or even just waxing my bikini line than watch a bunch of overpaid show-ponies kick a glorified plastic ball round a field.

But the World Cup is slightly different. It’s a celebration of nations, of the ability for humans to unite behind something that (allegedly) moves and excites millions of people, regardless of their language, culture or the colour of their skin. And we can pretty much all agree that the vuvuzelas sound like a swarm of angry wasps that need to be swatted.

Living in London, I love seeing the pockets of international supporters in different parts of the capital. Down our way, there’s a lot of Africans, waving their colourful national flags around and honking car horns. My friends come from around the world – Aussies, Americans, French, Spaniards and more. And my own family heritage is half German, though I was born in Italy and I’m a British citizen.

The World Cup is a great excuse to wear your nationality with pride, and to celebrate or commiserate with others that you feel an affinity with. But something bothers me about it. Not anyone else’s flags or shirts, but the English ones.

For ages I couldn’t put my finger on it. Why should my own flag make me feel uncomfortable? And then I realised why.

Every time I see the St George Cross, or the Union Jack, I see the smug, fat face of Nick Griffin and his BNP buddies, exemplified by the thick-necked bruisers I had the misfortune of having to hang around with in reception at the BBC studios during the election, while I was waiting to do an interview.

I see the England shirt on the hooligan who’s only out to bash up people who look different, and the fascist skinheads exemplified by Shane Meadows’ This is England. I see the misappropriation of Englishness by certain newspapers – and idiots on Facebook – who use stories about the ‘banning of flags and England shirts‘ as a veiled metaphor for anti-foreigner sentiment.

So thank you BNP, Daily Mail, football thugs and the rest. Far from achieving your aims, you’ve stolen my sense of pride in my country’s flag. I love my country – and the diversity within it – but you make me feel embarrassed to be English.

PS Anyone know where I can get a German and an Italian flag? I’m going to hedge my bets…

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65 responses to “On football, or Why the BNP has ruined the World Cup for me

  1. If you’re really hedging your bets it would be Spain and Brazil 🙂

  2. i don’t know what makes me sadder – seeing my old schoolfriends join those facebook groups or the fact that I’m too scared to delete them.

  3. If your nationality is British, why worry about the English-ness bit ? Enjoy the slightly gaudier British flag, and take joy in the fact that you’re celebrating your British nationality and not supporting anything whatsoever to do with the BNP. Who, regardless of the name, really seem keen on their English-ness.

  4. If you love the diversity within Englishness you will rise above party political affiliations and love your nation. If however you love living in a multiracial society (the codeword for this is diversity is it not?) more than the thought of living in a totally white English nation then you have rejected your tribe (the English) and your nation.

  5. The film This is England was set in the mid eighties when the English flag was very rarely seen. The union flag was the flag of choice of the National Front and you would not have seen it flying from bedroom windows as you do now. This was just another attempt to smear a 1000 year old flag.

  6. You do realise that the BNP are the British National party? And that the team playing in the world cup are England? The flag of the BNP is the Union flag, and the flag of England is the cross of St George? And despite the idiotic claims of librariann, the BNP are unionists, not Englanders.
    So, you don’t like football, you see racists everywhere for having the temerity to support their football team by flying the countries flag.
    I think you ought to go away and rethink your obvious racism against the English, don’t you? Instead of tarring us all with the BNP brush.

  7. I think you are a bigot, who generalises and steorotypes the english ( but it’s okay your’re allowed to do this.They are english after all). Remember the spanish fans making monkey chants at the black english players a couple of years ago? Probably not. Looked at the rise of the far right in france, italy, holland, germany? No it’s only the english who get labled at facist. Do your self a favour and read the book called “What’s Left?: How Liberals Lost Their Way”. The hypocracy you espouse, is neatly exposed within it.

  8. ” the comments I’ve had from right-wingers on this post are EXACTLY the reason why I wrote it. I reserve the right to delete them, but I’ve left them up for amusement for the moment. ”

    What comments? The ones that asked why you single out your ‘own’ country for criticism while everyone else gets a free pass? Why it’s great that everyone else in England is flying their flag but that the English doing it is unreasonable? The ones that maybe as you treat English people differently to others the attitude problem, bigotry and stereotyping is yours? Let’s be honest the English could the most perfect people in the world and you’d still find a reason to be ’embarrassed’ to be English whilst saying how fantastic everyone else is. But this is an introspection too far, so naturally everyone who points out your double standards rather than apologising for being English the way you think they should, is ‘right wing’ and proves your point about how terrible the English are and how completely wrong anyone might be to suggest the people like you who ‘love diversity’ don’t seem to extend that diversity to the English, because the problem couldn’t possibly be yours. You’ll carry on cringing regardless and believing it makes you so noble, superior and all embracing of cultures compared the rest of us.

  9. Kat, I think you really ought to question whether your negativity towards the English flags and your associations to them (the racist thug element) aren’t also a reflection of personal prejudice of an almost inverted-racist kind. Clearly, not all those who fly England flags from their cars or wear England shirts are racist thugs; and the fact that you have difficulty in seeing those people in the same light as the people in London whose joyful displays of their own national colours you love seeing, is much more a reflection of anglophobic sentiment than an objective assessment of the motives of most patriotic English people.

    And it’s far too convenient and self-serving (and self-justifying) to dismiss the comments of those who defend the flag fliers as those of right-wing nutters. Again, how much is the prejudice theirs, and how much yours?

  10. These people support England.

  11. stressedoutidealist

    So why are you supporting England if you hate the British so much?

  12. Part 1

    The World Cup is a great excuse to wear your nationality with pride, and to celebrate or commiserate with others that you feel an affinity with. But something bothers me about it. Not anyone else’s flags or shirts, but the English ones.”

    What is a flag? What does it represent? It represents culture, nationality, pride in one’s country, history and heritage. The flag represents the nationalist, the patriot, the culture lover.
    What is culture if it isn’t that of the indigenous peoples of that land? How can a culture be that of many who may come to that land and decide to be British, Spanish, Irish, Brazilian..etc? This is where people are simply ignorant of the cause and I fully respect the BNP’s brave stance on race although I do not support them because I’m not a socialist. However I do know that the more immigrants come to the UK; the more our culture and traditions are further diluted, the very plan of the NWO, to utterly obliterate culture, tradition and race – yes, race! Let’s look at the bigger picture here shall we? Ask yourself a question, how many British people are going abroad and diluting foreign cultures and lands? How many, let’s say, are packing their bags and going to Zimbabwe, or South Africa? How many are going to North America? The answer is pretty much zero. Instead everyone else is coming to the UK to fly their flag and colonise our land.

    Now, let’s move further into the future shall we? What will happen when the indigenous are the minority? What will happen when our society has become a battleground as many pockets of the UK now have inhabitants from all over the world who have chosen to live by their own culture, realising (truthfully) that British culture has nothing whatsoever to do with them and they then decide to take Britain for their own culture/peoples?
    You see, things never change. Man is still man and they are not prepared to give up their culture for anyone, well that is unless they’re British.

    Through years of continued subversion (obliteration of western gentile culture) of the UK, we have accepted the culture destroying liberalism (a Jewish phenomena) as our own and quite happily allowed our culture to be smashed, as Liberalism’s job is to find hatred and promote it where there is none. To show you what I mean, let’s take the word racism. The word racism, the true definition of the word racism is to “love your own culture and wish to promote it onto your future generations so as to not see it die out.” Nothing wrong with that is there? Then let’s add the following “thus to love your own culture and wish to promote it means that you hate other cultures and are therefore a bigot and prejudice.”
    Let’s move into the Jewish involvement here, although I will only speak briefly as this topic is a very deep well. Jews have been evicted out of every land that they’ve ever been in. 95% of Jews are not related to the semitic Jewish peoples, the descendents of Juddah, one of the tribes of Israel. They are in fact all descendents of Khazars, who converted to Judaism in the latter parts of the 10th Century.

  13. (cont’d) Part 2

    Therefore, upon being allowed back into the West they had to somehow create a situation where they would no longer be removed from society and thus Liberalism was born. They would then champion the minorities, quite happily promote the attack on gentile culture as it would take away the heat on them. By gaining control of major establishments, controlling the media, finance, education would they destroy the National culture. Thus in England especially, any Nationalism that was pro English, pro Christian was to them a threat and they simply didn’t want to find themselves evicted yet again, from the UK as they were back in the 13th century. In a nutshell, what’s good for the English/British culture is bad for them, as it turns the floodlights upon a people whom, throughout history have purposefully segregated themselves from society, followed their own religion and mixed only within their own peoples. Thus, in order to stop the floodlight being pointed upon them, out came the word racist to attack anyone who should be proud of their own culture and nationality. If you don’t believe me on all of this I suggest you start reading up on the history of Jewry. There are many, many authors, great statesmen, dissidents, poets, presidents, generals…who have written much on Jewry. It’s not so much a hatred of us from Jews why they behave as they do, but simply a protection mechanism, which has evolved because of 3,000 years of not being liked – for many reasons – their inability to integrate with the lands they lived in is a prime reason.

    So where am I going with this? Well, I’m trying to make you realise that once British culture, traditional culture is gone – THIS WON’T BE BRITAIN ANYMORE! You and much of society has been led to believe that our society nation is a mongrel nation. This is a lie, more propaganda from the Zionist controlled MSM. Many people are sooooo ignorant on Nationalism and even more ignorant on immigration and the effect it has upon a society. Let’s take Pakistan for example, the more Pakistani immigrants come to the UK, the more our society turns into Pakistan. They don’t integrate into our society and why should they? We have no right to indoctrinate people with a culture that is not theirs! They’re MUSLIM, that is their society and culture, hence when they come to the UK they do what all others do not of European origin and build their own ghettos. These ghettos grow and eventually in the UK will there be the situation where they will demand separation, as what happened with the Muslims who demanded they be allowed to have a separate state within India and thus Pakistan was created.

    Look at the bigger picture here, Jews have children who remain Jews. Muslims have children who remain Muslims. Christians have children who either remain Christians or else turn in to agnostics or atheists. I’m not denying that Jews and Muslims don’t either, but the percentage is much smaller that within those who live in the Christian west. And remember, that apostasy is punishable with death in some Muslim lands.

  14. (cont’d) Part 3

    One thing within the mind of Nationalists is the saying “when in Rome..” That is, they are not happy about their culture being diluted and the flood of immigration. They know that it is not their right to force their history and traditions upon incoming peoples and that is why they want to keep immgration to a bare minimum. Common sense easily dictates that the more people from other lands come to yours, the more your culture disappears – colonisation.
    The reason that countries have fought wars throughout history was to stop what Nulabour have happily allowed to happen (under NWO order) and that is mass immigration onto these shores. Thus, their very actions have made the sacrifices of our forefathers utterly worthless. Mix in Jewish Liberal attitude and then the word racist is thrown at anyone who merely points out the truth that “you will destroy our culture and kill our land.”

    Liberals in the UK continue to state that they respect all other cultures, peoples and their nations, yet they do not respect their own. They would be happy to stop the mass immgiration of whites into South Africa and the promotion of our culture there, but would do nothing while Africans came to the UK and did the same. A culture that continues to merge with others eventually disappears. This is happening in the UK and is happening for a reason. That reason many people are ignorant to. That reason is simply – crack the UK, destroy the culture, other European countries will follow suit, thus all will be the same, Nationalism (love for one’s country and culture) will be dead and the people will have no history or heritage to fall back to and thus the creation of a borderless world, under a one world government, one world bank and the total control of peoples via RFID chips will be a complete cakewalk.

    You say the following which shows just how oblivious and ignorant you are to the stone cold truth of what I’ve just written:

    “It’s a celebration of nations, of the ability for humans to unite behind something that (allegedly) moves and excites millions of people, regardless of their language, culture or the colour of their skin.”

    To answer your ludicrous statement: What happens when all the Germans go to Italy and take their culture with them until Italians all speak German and eat german sausage? What happens when the French all go to South Africa and everyone speaks French and is taught French history as their own? What happens when the whole world, after years of colonization, the destruction of borders (currently happening), mass immigration and the promotion of a one world culture, government, bank, identity happens? Well I’ll tell you, there will be no World Cup. There will be no Nations as the world will just be one big homogeneous blob of people who all look the same, think the same, speak the same, have the same history (changed of course for politically correct reasons).

  15. (cont’d) part 4.

    It is this that people are oblivious to see. Multiculturalism is the destruction of Nation. No nations no World Cups, no Olympics, no other languages to learn as all countries will be the same, bar climate of course. All peoples will be the same, all the same colour, that is with one catch – the Jews will still be Jews, still mixing only with Jews, still teaching their children the Talmud and still maintaining they are the Chosen ones, the elites.

    It is sadly articles like yours that miss the whole point of what Nationalism is all about. It is the protection of culture and tradition and the massive respect for others, that should be allowed to grow but not within foreign lands so as to show respect for indigenous cultures. Nationalism is about looking ahead into the future and doing its best to avert societal problems caused by the allowance of immigration on deadly scales.

    Ask yourself a question, if other cultures are so brilliant, why do these peoples flee their lands to come to the west? They are coming from the 2nd and 3rd worlds are they not? Does this by definition not make them inferior peoples and cultures, to our own in the 1st place, or are you going to say that should I come first in a race those who came second and third are equal and I no better?

    Truth is the biggest victim here, for the simple reason that you cannot allow immigration into a land without it having a detrimental effect onto that culture.

    I’m sure you love living in London. I did also until I listened to the ignorant youth speak in their illiterate Jafaican. I kind of realised that I didn’t really like London when walking home at night, I’d get into trouble from Asian youths in East London telling me this was “no go areas for whites.” I kind of decided I didn’t like London when I got turned down for jobs, thanks to Harriet Harman’s positive dicrimination laws and never ever having a chance of getting a council house/on a housing association list because I was “the wrong colour and sex.”
    Did this make me angry? Damn right it did, but it didn’t turn me into someone who hated others. What it did do was make me realise that white people hate white people and are in fact the most prejudice of all the races to their own. I realised they would happily give council houses to immgrants off the boat but never to their own. I also realised how much I hated London, after one day saying I was proud to be white, especially after all my ancestors had done to create a safe and liberty loving environment for me to grow up in, when someone in my company, with a copy of the ‘Voice’ under his arm, called me a racist for being proud of my race and nationality. That was the time I left London, a cesspit of hypocrisy and inane prejudice, but not from white to ethnic but the other way around.

  16. My dear child, – did you sit down at your desk and ‘I know, I’ll write something that will really annoy the English” Because it certainly reads like deliberate provocation.

    It’s smugly self-righteous and every so slightly tacky.

    I know, now I’ll go to Italy and write something that will really annoy the Italians, I’ll tell them that their flag has no real history (it hasn’t) that they have no right to be proud of what history they have got; (when did Italy become a nation 1800 and what?) Mussolini was a monster and they should hang their head in shame rather than wave their flag with pride.

    Reckon I’d get a right bollocking from the patriotic Italians? You’d probably be first in line. Sounds a bit different when it’s put that way doesn’t it?

    Now stop trying to be clever, you are merely making a fool of yourself.

  17. So, basically you’ve seen a couple of hooligan films, read a bit of the Daily Mail and the Sun and think that gives you great insight in order to sum up the vast majority of the English and England football fans, despite by your own admission not liking the sport at all.

    Blimey I wish I could write such well informed articles. The irony being that you’re actually guilty of the very crime you accuse others of; ignorant bigotry – not that I would expect you to see it.

  18. Marcus, may I just remind you that England colonised the planet (mostly quite violently so) a few hundred years ago, resulting in population movements and cultural identity and landscape changes, both economically and aesthetically. Why is it ok for England to go to other places, claim and rape them for all their worth – and it’s not ok for others to come to England and just live there? That’s hypocrisy.

    • Nettie,

      You need not remind me of England’s past. I know of it very well and disagree vehemently in what it did. However, saying that, England and the other European nations pretty much dragged the third world countries out of the stone age and what they did greatly benefited their future generations.

      I’ll explain.

      Firstly, the trans Atlantic slave trade was a double edged sword – absolute hell for the slaves at the time but a blessing in disguise for their future generations. Had the trans Atlantic slave trade never happened and the Europeans never gone to Africa there would be no Africans in the West today. That’s a simple fact. Africa would be today as it was in the 15th Century, a barbaric wilderness of tribal warfare. More so, there were just under 500k Africans taken to the USA. Today that number has increased 80 fold to almost 40million. Compare this number to the Sub Saharan slave trade where 28 million Africans were taken (111 million died en route almost thirteen times the number of the combined European slave trade) to the Middle East, the men castrated turned into slaves/army and the women turned into sex slaves – no children and no African families. Had the men and women been allowed to have families in the then Christian USA, the population of the middle east today, if comparing the growth to that of American slaves would be 2 billion more Africans than there are. And there are very few.

      Secondly, like it or not, that time was a time of global conquest and rennaissance. The stone cold fact was that the European peoples were and still are a superior people and culture to that of Africa and much of Asia. They don’t call the west the 1st world for nothing you know. There’s a difference between 1st world Europeans going to other lands compared to 2nd/3rd worlders coming here. 1st worlders create whereas 2nd/3rd worlders take due to obvious reasons. Again this is simple fact that if brought up in debate will instantly have people shouting racist, racist, racist! Again, people must face facts Whites are different to Blacks are different to Asians. All races developed in their own lands and adapted to live in those lands over time. Whites have higher IQ’s than blacks and the creation of the white western civilization proves this simple of facts. Blacks are better in the sporting field and this is proved by the many top black athletes in almost all physical sporting events (apart from swimming). Like it or not we are different and that should be respected and celebrated.

      Thirdly, as stated before with migration, you’ll see that the overwhelming number of migrants has been one way from the 2nd/3rd world into the first. This has been for the undoubtable reasons that economically the west is superior, along with financially, medicinally, educationally, ethically, religiously, scientifically and socially. Hence again why we live in the 1st world – our world is superior, ergo the people within made it superior, ergo the white cultures and peoples are superior in the aforementioned qualities to those of the 2nd/3rd world. Again this most simple of fact will automatically be shouted down as racism and an attack on the non whites, when in fact it’s merely stating cold, hard fact and truth. Were those of the 3rd world superior, they’d have created the west before we did.

      • “Were those of the 3rd world superior, they’d have created the west before we did.”
        Wow. Just… wow. I guess Egypt, Rome, Greece don’t count…

        I’m tempted to just block your comments but I’m leaving them up as an example to others.

  19. @Marcus: tl;dr

  20. Marcus, a fairly substantial number of Brits leave the country every year – in the hundreds of thousands.
    And we’ve been a multicultural country for hundreds of years. You know William the Conqueror was French, right? As is a good chunk of our “culture”. England is where it is culturally because of an exchange of ideas and culture with the world, not because of a refusal to take on ideas from other cultures and peoples.

    • Duck,

      With all due respect there is massive difference between the mixing of European cultures and non European cultures for the simple reasons that firstly, the peoples of Europe and Britain share common ancestry, not forgetting culture also. William the Conqueror was Norman, not French. The Normans came from the North (Norsemen) and were Vikings. They settled in that part of France for 100 years before coming to England. The Norsemen came from central Europe – Germany, as did the Angles, the Saxons and the Jutes who also came to Britain. The inhabitants of Briton at the time were Celtic peoples, the predominant peoples and culture of Europe at the time. Thus all the peoples of Europe did was move around from one place in Europe to the other. Take Scotland and Ireland for example. The Scots came from Northern Ireland and invaded Caledonia circa 3rd Century hence the name Scotland, by intermingling with the Picts a culture very similar to Celt. The Scots were a tribe of Celts from Ireland, themselves Celts from Spain (never existed at the time).

      The point I’m making is a simple one. The ‘multiculturalism’ of the UK has always been a European cultural civilization. It’s never had outside influence from Asia or Africa, something which has only become noticeable since the end of WW2 and the immigration into the UK from the West Indians and the Indians, themselves people who had grown up under the British Empire cultural beliefs and education systems. The first wave of Indians into the UK were Hindus and Sikhs of the Empire. It was only until the late 70’s did the Muslims of Pakistan and Bangladesh come here.

      So in essence Britain has NEVER been a multicultural society for the simple reason that all Europeans share common ancestry and culture with one another. Take into fact that all have been predominantly Christian is another contributing factor. The belief system of all Europeans has predominantly been the same for thousands of years, with the only cultural differences being language and food. The basic ethos of the European civilization has all been one of the same following the Golden Rule of Christianity.
      In a nutshell all Europeans are connected, as are all Asians as are all Africans etc etc. We are peoples who have grown up under our own cultures, sharing common belief systems with our neighbours. There is a massive difference when people decide to connect European culture with Asian and African. Such a massive difference.

      The England/Britain that you know of now is vastly different to the England/Britain of 50 years ago. Simply put, England and Britain no longer is England and Britain for many reasons. The rules have changed. The ideology is totally different. The peoples here share no common ancestry with our society, our history and cultures. Britain may look the same and in parts still have the same cultural beliefs and traditions (SW) but overall this land is no longer Britain and people born in Britain, even of indigenous stock are no longer British either (English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh). Why? I hear you say. Simple, the traditions of our peoples are no longer promoted to the next generations. If anything, white Britons are American culture following along with Asians and Africans their respective beliefs and a fusion of American also.

  21. oh and just as an aside many of the texts that triggered the renaissance were translated by North African Muslims in Andulucia, IQ is not a perfect measure of intelligence, the Chinese invented gunpowder and the concept of the number zero is from the Middle East.

    “it was chiefly from Moslem Spain that Arab culture advanced to interpenetrate the Christian culture of the early Middle Ages to produce the civilization which we inherited…between the middle of the eighth and the beginning of the thirteenth centuries…the Arabic-speaking peoples were the main bearers of the torch of culture and civilization throughout the world, the medium through which ancient science and philosophy were recovered, supplemented and transmitted to make possible the renaissance of Western Europe. ”

    http://everything2.com/title/Aristotle%2527s+Lost+Library%252C+Medieval+Andalusia+%2526+Chinese+Paper%252C+or+How+Europe+Learned+to+Learn+Again+and+Why+the+Renaissance+Happened+When+%2526+Where+It+Did

    • Really? So why is it that the Muslim world is so backward today? It doesn’t really fit sadly, yet more propaganda, as from what it seems, the Muslim rennaissance of western civilization grounded to a massive halt. Why?

      There is much speculation that the actual inventions of “Muslim lands” were infact stolen from the indigenous peoples of that land before the invasion of them.

      Regardless, you miss much of what I’ve stated. Then again, it’s understandable as people only read and hear what they want to read and hear as long as it fits into their belief of how the world should be.

      I’ll repeat is again, before I leave this debate – There’s massive difference to European immigrants migrating within Europe and non Europeans migrating into Europe. However, continue to believe what you will and the multicultural mantra of “we’re all the same at the end of the day.”

  22. “It’s never had outside influence from Asia or Africa, something which has only become noticeable since the end of WW2 ”

    Chinese immigrants started moving to this country in large numbers in the early 1800s actually.

    • You miss the point completely. Up until the end of the war, Britain was predominantly a White, Christian country, that promoted its own cultures to its people. This all drastically changed after the war for many reasons – planned reasons by order of the NWO.

      Sure there were Chinese in the UK in the 1800’s along with Russians, Muslims, Africans, South Americans, central Americans etc etc, but THEY NEVER HAD AN IMPACT ON THE INDIGENOUS CULTURE. If anything, many were brought up under British cultural ways of life, although most apart remained living in their own ghettos. The amount of immigrants into the UK before the war had the same affect on our culture and society as a drop of water in an ocean.

  23. Kat Arney,

    “Wow. Just… wow. I guess Egypt, Rome, Greece don’t count…

    I’m tempted to just block your comments but I’m leaving them up as an example to others.”

    No Kat, it just proves your ignorance to everything I’ve spoken about, but then you’re young and maybe you’ll educate yourself a bit better than you have and understand that you’ve been indoctrinated by a very controlled MSM in order to make you think as you do.

    The Egyptians were not Black but white. Did you know that? The Greeks and Romans were the founding fathers of the West and the 1st world, white peoples also. What are you trying to prove in that nonsensical statement? Have you had an education or were you just weened on the Harp from an early age?

    Again, like I said, you are just exceptionally ignorant on much, as seen from your article. Maybe strumming your harp has affected your thought patterns, who knows, but by all means, delete what I have to say. Oooh, you’re such a libertarian aren’t you? You disagree with others because of your lack of knowledge on the subject and decide to delete it because it’s something you know nothing about? Nice. What a great advertisement for liberty you are. LOL
    People know they’re on the right path when others censor their opinions.

    “If liberty be anything at all it’s the freedom to tell people what they don’t want to hear” – George Orwell.

    • “People know they’re on the right path when others censor their opinions.”
      Which is why I’m not deleting your comments. I am uncomfortable with the overt racism and anti-semitism that is now on my blog as a result of your writing – this blog is my personal online space, which I invite people into – but I am not deleting for exactly this reason.

      I’m free to ‘reveal my ignorance’ through what I’ve written (which, if you read my original post for comprehension, was an exploration of why I personally feel uneasy at seeing so many England flags.)

      I am intrigued by your powers of deduction about my age, experience and education – which are laughably wrong. In turn, I’m perfectly happy to let you reveal your own knowledge and character through your comments and we can all make our own conclusions.

      • “I am ucomfortable with overt racism and anti-semitism”

        Oh how little you know. Oh how so very little you know. I strongly suggest that you actually educate yourself, especially if you want to advertise yourself on the blogsphere. To put it bluntly, if one was to compare your knowledge on anti semitism (those who disagree with Jews) and racism (those who love their own culture and peoples but have automatically been slurred as other people and culture haters) to that of life, you my dear, are still waiting to be born.

        Do have a nice day. I shan’t write anymore on your blog for the simple reason I like to discuss with enlightened people, not incredibly ignorant liberals, unknowing about much of reality, liberty and indigenous cultures.

      • Bye, Marcus – missing you already!
        Thanks for visiting, I’ve learnt a lot from you.

  24. By the way Kat, I’m actually Libertarian, but then you do prove the ignorance of the left in your statement recently added:

    ” the comments I’ve had from right-wingers on this post are EXACTLY the reason why I wrote it.”

    I lastly hate to say it, you may live here; you may have been born here, but you most certainly are not English or British. I think that’s quite apparent in your OP.

    Bye bye daaaaaaaaaaaaaaling, do keep up the harp practice now.

    • “you may live here; you may have been born here, but you most certainly are not English or British. I think that’s quite apparent in your OP.”

      Thanks for letting me know. I shall be sure to fill in “Aryan” the next time the census comes round.

  25. It is increasingly surprising to me how you in Europe have your own “problem” with immigration. Here in the States, it’s the “Mexicans”. I write Mexicans in quotes because White Americans are quick to label as “Mexicans” all people from Latin America, even Puerto Ricans who are US Citizens.
    Sadly, it is not until I speak that people in many parts of the “heartland” open up to me and acknowledge me as a person. If I keep my mouth shut, they quite openly wonder if I speak English. Sad. Sad. Sad.

  26. marcus – you are incredibly arrogant in your beliefs.

    and I can vouch that Kat is 100% English.

    As am I.

  27. “Sure there were Chinese in the UK in the 1800′s along with Russians, Muslims, Africans, South Americans, central Americans etc etc, but THEY NEVER HAD AN IMPACT ON THE INDIGENOUS CULTURE.”

    I disagree, there was much fuss made of the impact of Opium on the morals of British people at the time. If you live alongside someone, trade and speak with them they become part of your culture.

    Anyway, I guess the real point is that even if you had any factual basis for your argument, I was born in the last 50 years, so I have no experience of this mythical English culture that has been so sadly sullied. I like English culture as it is now, embracing influence from the world and moving onwards, not looking back to a pre war time when the individual had far less freedom of expression and action than he/she does now.

    You can perhaps make argument for immigration levels being too high economically, but our culture changes and grows and accepts outside influence, always has, and is better for it. Where does tea grow again?

  28. Marcus if you could preface all your comments with ‘i am a colossal racist’ it would save us all a lot of time.

    • If some of the people who disagreed with him prefaced their comments with “I’m poorly educated, ignorant and closeminded” that would save everybodies time!

  29. Interesting thoughts Kat, and I think people need to remember that blog posts are one person’s thoughts on how they are affected by an issue.

    For me, living in my own culturally-diverse bit of East London, I can understand your concerns.
    That said, the vans and cars flying flags, the houses with banners up, the people in England shirts, show me that things have moved on.
    How? By the people flying/wearing the flags not necessarily being white.

  30. Stop being reasonable Claire we’ve got some wildly ignorant xenophobia to argue about.

  31. That point about British people not moving abroad – particularly to the listed places of Canada, South Africa etc is hilarious. For a long time there was a net OUTWARD movement, ie there were more people from Britain settling abroad than there were foreigners settling here. It may even still be true, I’m not sure.

    What really makes me laugh is that a lot of the people who love to spout racist filth about “foreigners” ruining our culture and refusing to learn our rules / speak our language are exactly the same people who go and live in Spain when they retire. And proceed to completely ignore the local culture and refuse to speak Spanish. And don’t even notice the irony.

  32. I’m afraid Kat and co display ignorance that only the truly smallminded can show. Aren’t you ashamed of your lack of knowledge and pride in your own culture?
    I can accept that people in sink schools don’t know much about their own history, but there are such things as books. Get reading and stop embarrassing yourselves!

    • I’m baffled as to how you’ve managed to divine our collective levels of education and learning from a few comments on an insignificant website. I suppose it depends what you’d consider to be an education…

    • Perhaps Roger would like to provide a recommended reading list for us?

      • Why don’t you identify the gaps in your knowledge and find some books yourself?

        I think Marcus was right. This is no place for an intelligent discussion.

        Rejoice in your ignorance.

      • >Why don’t you identify the gaps in your knowledge and find some books yourself?

        I asked a direct and honest question. If you think I am so terribly ignorant, please do suggest where I should start educating myself. Your response is a cop-out – would it hurt to reveal the sources you consider to be ‘knowledge’, rather than continually insulting my intelligence and education, and that of my friends?

  33. Oh dear Roger, you really don’t have a clue.
    I went to a nice school and have a degree.
    Educated people tend to be more liberal.
    Do pay attention at the back of the class !

  34. @ Reg. My, my, I’d never have guessed it. UNIVERSITY no less! That would explain unthinkingly spouting out anti-white views and the ad-hominem attacks on those who don’t worship at the shrine of Political Correctness, but there isn’t much INTELLIGENCE shown in your posts.

  35. Roger you are typical of Tory “debate” – it’s all personal attacks.

    Do you also hate gays ?

    Would you also like to complain about “PC gone mad”, “Elf and Safety” and “Compensation Culture” ?

    For the record – I am white and English. I am also proud of the British tradition of tolerance for others – something you need to learn.

    If you don’t like it here, you might like the Daily Mail forum….

  36. Weve heard it all before

    Two comments stuck out for me. After reading them I couldn’t be bothered to read the rest of what you posted.

    “the comments I’ve had from right-wingers on this post are EXACTLY the reason why I wrote it. ”

    “Down our way, there’s a lot of Africans, waving their colourful national flags around and honking car horns. My friends come from around the world – Aussies, Americans, French, Spaniards and more. And my own family heritage is half German, though I was born in Italy and I’m a British citizen.”

    So you admit you wrote the piece TO annoy English people? How old are you? You’re an idiot.
    Secondly, you don’t appear to have a problem with “Africans” being patriotic. I conclude then that you are just another anti-English arsehole or should I type Arschloch? Oh by the way, Nick Griffin isn’t English and the BNP are the BRITISH national party you dumb bitch!

    Finally, you are not English OR British!
    “Far from achieving your aims, you’ve stolen my sense of pride in my country’s flag. I love my country – and the diversity within it – but you make me feel embarrassed to be English.”
    You aren’t English! Us English know who is English and who isn’t and you’re not. That is why you whole post is slagging England off. I am glad you hate England. I don’t want people like you claiming to be English.

    “Anyone know where I can get a German and an Italian flag?”
    That comment says it all. If you hate England then get the fuck out of England. It is quite simple. Yeah you wont leave England because, despite all your hot air you’re full of shit!

    • A few points in response to this abusive comment, directed at me by an anonymous person who has not actually comprehended my original post.

      Nowhere have I said that I hate England, England fans or the England flag. Nowhere have I said that I assumed that anyone flying a flag was a racist or a thug either. I expressed a feeling (which I am entirely entitled to have) that seeing so many England flags makes me feel uncomfortable due to their misappropriation by racists and hooligans in the past.

      “You aren’t English! Us English know who is English and who isn’t and you’re not. That is why you whole post is slagging England off. I am glad you hate England. I don’t want people like you claiming to be English.”

      I am British English. I hold a British passport. My Italian birth certificate registers me as “Bambina Inglesa” – an English baby. I self-identify as English. Nobody – least of all an anonymous person on the internet – has any right to tell me what nationality I am or am not. The law tells me I am British English. It is not for me – or anyone else other than the state – to decide how English or British someone is.

      The fact that some people have read an anti-English sentiment into it is the height of irony. I will reiterate this from my original post:
      “Far from achieving your aims, you’ve stolen my sense of pride in my country’s flag. I love my country – and the diversity within it – but you make me feel embarrassed to be English.”

      The responses I’ve had to my post have only served to highlight this further.

      The thing that has stood out for me the most in this ‘debate’ is what Claire said:
      “That said, the vans and cars flying flags, the houses with banners up, the people in England shirts, show me that things have moved on. How? By the people flying/wearing the flags not necessarily being white.”

      Finally – any comments with abusive language and swearing will be removed. I do not wish to censor differing opinions but I would appreciate it if people could do so without resorting to swearing and personal abuse.

  37. Every time I see the St George Cross, or the Union Jack, I see the smug, fat face of Nick Griffin and his BNP buddies…

    The fact *you* have impoverished cultural referents does not make the Union Flag (not ‘Jack’) or the Flag of St George into racist emblems.

    Your self-loathing is nothing new. Orwell identified and anatomised the ‘anyone but England’ cultural cringe type back in the 1930s.

  38. Not anyone else’s flags or shirts, [JUST] the English ones."

    Nowhere have I said that I hate England, England fans OR THE ENGLAND FLAG.

    Nowhere have I said that I assumed that *anyone* flying a flag was a racist or a THUG either.

    Same old baby-talk from just another anti-English, supposedly British, bigot. Oh, I didn’t say that BUT….
    Any fool can play semantics; I consider it pathetic in the extreme. It isn’t clever; it’s cowardly! Say what you have to say straight out. Do not use excuses for your bigotry. I mean, honestly, the way you’re carrying on well, I could be forgiven for thinking that all those stories about Italian soldiers running away during the 2nd world war are true. See how stereotyping works? The funny thing is anti-English are the first to whine when they’re stereotyped. Talk about hypocrisy.

    “something bothers me about it. Not anyone else’s flags or shirts, but the English ones.”
    “EVERY TIME I see the St George Cross, or the Union Jack, I see the smug, fat face of Nick Griffin and his BNP buddies, exemplified by the thick-necked bruisers I had the misfortune of having to hang around with in reception at the BBC studios during the election, while I was waiting to do an interview.”

    The above makes a mockery of your following assertion: “Nowhere have I said that I assumed that *anyone* flying a flag was a racist or a THUG either.” Liar! You just stated it. Are you trying to say that you do not think “fat”, “smug” Nick Griffin flies the Union flag and is a fascist?By the way, it is the union flag NOT union jack. How ignorant. Also, why pick on the fact that someone is “fat”? I am sure plenty of fat people will not like it.

    “I see the England shirt on the hooligan who’s only out to bash up people who look different, and the fascist skinheads exemplified by Shane Meadows’ This is England. ”

    Explain exactly what you do mean by the following comments:

    “I see the England shirt on the hooligan”?
    Like who? You slagged the media off, i.e. “I see the misappropriation of Englishness by certain newspapers” and you said you don’t like football so you obviously do not go to games? So where do you see these “holligan’ types? What hooligan? Name the hooligan! Oh yes of course. You are just using media images. Right! I thought you were dismissive of newspapers and the like? Oh yeah that’s right. It is only certain newspapers that you dont like the rest you agree with. In other words, you dont like the papers that are pro-English. I bet you hate the Daily Mail and love the Guardian. Any money.

    “EVERY TIME I see the St George Cross, or the Union Jack, I see the smug, fat face of Nick Griffin and his BNP buddies, exemplified by the thick-necked bruisers…..” “[I see the stereotyped Englishman – who I Kat Arney, have just stereotyped in this post] …..
    *ONLY* out to bash up people who look different….”
    (EVERY Englishman is *ONLY* out to bash people who look different? Really? That is an obvious untruth and shows just how anti-English you are.)
    “…..and the fascist skinheads” Did Italy have a problem with fascism? It’s where you were born so you ought to know. You are Italian!
    I would like to know how many fascist skinheads you actually know. I bet the answer is none. So again, you’re using stereotypes. Oh no! Hang on, you’re thinking of those people you supposedly had the “misfortune” of mixing with at the BBC aren’t you? Aren’t we quite the little stuck-up one? I bet you claim to be a socialist to. Well do you? A socialist who cannot stand being in the same room as the common people. How nice.

    I expressed a feeling (which I am entirely entitled to have) that seeing so many England flags makes me feel uncomfortable due to their misappropriation by racists and hooligans in the past.

    *yawn* How boring! Oh poor you. You are such a victim. Not! Get over it. I do not agree with your post. I will NEVER agree with people like you. You magnify certain instances and intimate that ALL English people are the same. People like you only want to waffle about English folk. Italy has a big problem with football hooligans; I don’t see you saying anything about it.
    Simple put, you’re an anti-English bigot. I do care if you play with semantics. I do care if you lie. I do care if you insinuate stuff. It is your psychological flaw not mine, but really there are too many people like you in England.
    I mean you go on about “hooligans”, but unfortunately for people like you (regarding England fans) there has been no trouble in South Africa. Oh! I bet you’re annoyed about that. 🙂 Good! I hope you’re seething!
    “seeing so many England flags makes me feel uncomfortable due to their misappropriation by racists and hooligans in the past.”

    What “misappropriation” are you referring to? The BNP? The BNP use the Union flag! It is on the website. You are deliberately trying to link the English flag with the BNP.
    EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion. Do not whine you said it, not me.
    If you do not like England flags do not look at them. Seriously, you seem to me to be acting like some self-rightous, spoilt little brat, i.e. You stated, “I expressed a feeling (which I am entirely entitled to have)…” So what? Everyone else is ENTITLED to their opinion to. The fact that you used the word ENTITLED says it all.

    “Due to their misappropriation by racists and hooligans” I do not believe you! You are just using this as an excuse for your own prejudice. If it wasn’t this “reason” it’d be some other line.

    “You aren’t English! Us English know who is English and who isn’t and you’re not. That is why you whole post is slagging England off. I am glad you hate England. I don’t want people like you claiming to be English.”

    I am British English.

    Ha!Ha! No such thing. Do you speak British? Do you speak British? Anyone with even the smallest amount of intelligence knows that the British state is an artificial/political construct. It has passed it’s sell-by date. That is why people like you hate Englishness. Your cosy little world is about to be transformed and you do not like the idea of the real people of England running England. You want it to stay the same because it has provided you with a nice life and you do not want those nasty common English people running the show. Well, it is our country! OURS! You know what, it wouldn’t be half as bad if the people who came here didn’t laugh in our faces and tell us obvious lies. Fortunately, not every person born abroad is like you, i.e. anti-English, but some are. I don’t know. Are you a foreign-born interloper who comes to England, gets a nice life, and slags England, or should I say, the English off at every opportunity? Oh I am sorry that you do not like English assertiveness.

    I hold a British passport. My Italian birth certificate registers me as “Bambina Inglesa” – an English baby. I self-identify as English. Nobody – least of all an anonymous person on the internet – has any right to tell me what nationality I am or am not.

    In that case, no foreign-born England-hater has the right to tell me they do not like my flag.
    I do not believe you when you say you “self-identify” as English. You do not like the English flag? A flag is a huge part of anyone’s national identity. Like you stated, “Anyone know where I can get a German and an Italian flag?”
    You stated that “something [bothered] you about the English flag…” You said it was because it was used by fascists etc What rubbish. How many other flags have been used by fascists, yet you only concentrate on the English flag? That is selective bigotry. Like I stated, you’re just trying to link the English flag with fascism!
    “something bothers me about it. Not anyone else’s flags or shirts, but the English ones.”
    JUST the English flags? Bigot.
    You refer to English people as fascists and hooligans! Yeah sure you “self-identify” as English!

    “Nobody has any right to tell me what nationality I am or am not.”
    You talk about fascists. You are one. Well, you are Italian 🙂 You yourself stated “I expressed a feeling (which I am entirely entitled to have)….”. That is what I was doing. I am entitled to express my opinion about MY country whether you like it or not. You were born in Italy therefore you are ENTITLED to say whatever you want about Italy; not England. Sound familiar? “Nobody has any right to tell me what nationality I am or am not.” By your logic, nobody has the right to tell me what I can and cannot say about MY own country either then, especially when they weren’t born in England!

    So, let me get this straight. YOU are ENTITLED to make any comment you want, even if they are lies; but I am NOT entitled to the same rights? I was born in England, you weren’t and yet you think you can tell me you’re entitled to spout whatever you like, whilst I can’t? I don’t think so. That’s fascism. So, not only are you exhibiting fascist-like qualities, but you’re also denying me the freedom to reply. Nice!

    The law tells me I am British English. It is not for me – or anyone else other than the state – to decide how English or British someone is.

    What law? Please post the link. Laws were made to be broken 🙂 and changed!
    You do realise that a huge amount of people are against the so-called British state I take it? There won’t be a British state soon. Oh dear! What will you do then? Well we all know that’s why comments like yours are posted. You want to keep the English down because it benefits you! You do realise posting anti-English comments only quickens the end of so-called Britishness?

    The fact that some people have read an anti-English sentiment into it is the height of irony. I will reiterate this from my original post:
    “Far from achieving your aims, you’ve stolen my sense of pride in my country’s flag. I love my country – and the diversity within it – but you make me feel embarrassed to be English.”

    Who is the “you” you’re referring to? What “aims” are you referring to?
    Personally, if the foreign-born people living in England do not like England/ the English/the English flag why are they living in England? They are free to go and live somewhere else!

    The thing that has stood out for me the most in this ‘debate’ is what Claire said:
    “That said, the vans and cars flying flags, the houses with banners up, the people in England shirts, show me that things have moved on.
    How? By the people flying/wearing the flags not necessarily being white.”

    Ha! Ha! I get it. I bet you are annoyed when you see black/Indian et al people wearing England shirts. I bet you are. If they start to act English then you can say bye bye to fabricated Britishness. Actually, I doubt you’ve even thought of that.

    After all i’ve written I still think you posted your comments because of the following:
    I think this is the reason for your immature rant.

    “Every time I see the St George Cross [I see] thick-necked bruisers I had the misfortune of having to hang around with in reception at the BBC studios during the election, while I was waiting to do an interview.”

    What did they do? I bet they did nothing but be themselves. I bet you they annoyed you because they were too “common” for you. Yeah I bet that has a lot to do with your moronic post! You do not like mixing with the working class. Well i’d be careful what you state about “common” people.
    Go to Italy. I am sure the Italian football thugs will welcome you.

    On football, or Why the BNP has ruined the World Cup for me.
    Is there some kind of football thing on at the moment?
    I actively dislike [football].
    I’d rather spend 90 minutes watching a film, reading a book blah blah blah

    Can you be consistent? You start off by whining about how the world cup has been “ruined”, then you state that you dislike football. The BNP have nothing to do with the football world cup either. Oh yeah of course. Let’s link the BNP with English people and the English flag.
    Like I have already stated, the BNP is the BRITISH national party. Also, a lot of it’s members are not English so are you going to whine about all the non-English people and THEIR flags to or what? Go on then, do it!! You won’t. I know you won’t.
    Lack of consistency shows a lack of an argument.

  39. I think I know why the BNP supporters on this blog are whingeing so much :

    You’re all still really peed off that Nickywicky Griffin and his fascist mates failed to win any seats at the last election, right ?

    Never before has the word FAIL been so wonderful !

  40. Wow.

    Well done to Kat for putting up with such vitriol.

    I’m amazed at how different people can ready very different things into a few paragraphs – shows how important context is, I suppose!

    Why does anyone think they have the right to be personally offensive to Kat? What makes you think it’s okay to question her intelligence or nationality?

    Why should her opinion, which she is perfectly entitled to hold and espouse, lead you to ad-hominem attacks?

    If you disagree with Kat, and you would like her to come round to your way of thinking, do you think insulting her is the best way to go?

    Oh, and Marcus – that’s not how racism is defined. According to the OED (and I think how most people understand it): “The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races. Hence: prejudice and antagonism towards people of other races, esp. those felt to be a threat to one’s cultural or racial integrity or economic well-being; the expression of such prejudice in words or actions.”

    What you describe, pride in our culture, is great – but is not a definition of racism.

  41. Pingback: Happy Blogday to me! « You do too much

  42. shaun the brummie

    friend you need to feel nervous about the awakening ENGLISH identity,you stated the many different flags you’ve seen,THATS THE PROBLEM,uncontrolled immigration,allowed by a ANTI ENGLISH LABOUR government,this is why the ENGLISH are getting angry.we are fed up of being treated like shit and third class citizens in OUR OWN country.my taxes are paying the benefits of some asylun seeker,ROUND THEM UP AND KICK THEM OUT.i used to feel sorry for their plight,now i’m more concerned for ENGLISH OAP’s,why should i work until god knows when so some idle shit can have an easy life.I AM A VERY ANGRY ENGLISH MAN waiting for it to kick off,and it will.

  43. Actually when driving around England recently, I’ve noticed a lot more English & Union Jacks around these days. I think with the doom & gloom/cuts ‘siege mentality’ encouraged by the media, people are responding in a generally patriotic way!

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